Chasing a Moving Target with Rainbow Dickerson
SEASON 2 | EPISODE 3
Rainbow Dickerson | Photo provided by Rainbow Dickerson
Rainbow Dickerson is a Rappahannock-Thai actor and producer based in LA. She and Joel discuss what it’s like growing up in many places with a yearning for home, how specific on screen representation can be, and how to define success for yourself when it feels like other people at your level are more successful in the industry. Rainbow is an award-winning actor who stars in the new short film, The River. Fun fact: She and Joel are twice on-screen spouses on Avatar: The Last Airbender and Beans!
Joel and Rainbow at the Avatar: The Last Airbender premiere in Los Angeles, 2024.
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JD: Hey, all of my ancestors out there. Welcome back to Actors and Ancestors. I'm very excited to be here because, uh, I actually have gone back and have a friend on this show. The last two people I had, I didn't know at all, a very, a very good friend of mine in, in the biz, uh, when I was just a fledgling starting out really in, in film, uh, with a, with a big break in a movie called Beans.
You will recognize her. My good friend, Rainbow Dickerson, who I just think the world of, um, who's, uh, been nothing but a pleasure to see, work with, um, see successes and everything like that. And who is a big supporter of mine, too. I much appreciate you. Much love to you. Rainbow, thank you for being here. I would, what I would ask you to do is please, can you introduce yourself, uh, and your land and, uh, which people claim you?
Rainbow: Awesome. Hello! I'm very excited to be here. Um, yes. Okay. So I am Rainbow. I am a descendant of the Rappahannock tribe, which is from Virginia on the east coast of the United States. And I am also, um, a descendant of the Thai people. So my mother comes from Thailand, outside of Bangkok. So, and of course I, I, I call myself the daughter of colonization and, uh, immigration.
So my dad is also mixed, um, but we don't know with what. So Virginia, Virginia was a very complicated place. We'll just say that.
JD: Yeah, that entire, that entire area. And, and, and you know, what's funny is that when I met you and you, you told me your tribe, uh, and can you say it again for me too, because I've never got it. I feel really bad because it was a tribe that I'd actually, due to my full admission, I'd never actually heard of.
Rainbow: Yeah. Well, a lot of the Virginia tribes people haven't heard of and we just got, well, seven tribes just got federal recognition in 2018. It's no wonder people haven't heard. But so my tribe is Rappahannock, which is named after one of the rivers that flows through Virginia.
JD: That's beautiful. Rappahannock. Yeah. And I wonder why so many people didn't hear of so many of the tribes. Did something happen back in the day that would have wiped out?
Rainbow: Well, we were, we were one of the first stops. What can I say? I mean,
JD: Yeah, yeah,
Rainbow: you know, It's, it's funny. I actually met, um, I was doing a workshop of a play the other week and I met a young lady who is of African American and some sort of European descent and she has the last name Dickerson as well, which I always knew like our family adopted that name as well.
But so we were actually joking like, Oh, well maybe like maybe your ancestors, my ancestors were owned by like the same person. Like maybe we were literally owned, you know,
JD: Yeah.
Rainbow: by the same. Yeah, by the same family. So we're like, Oh, we should do, we should dig through this. What's up cuz? How you, how you doing?
JD: You could be on that, uh, that show one day where they do those digs into like people's backgrounds and ancestry that we get celebrities on and things. i'm talking to you audience my friend rainbow called herself a shithead who has never listened to my show Thank you very much rainbow.
I appreciate that uh for your honesty, but basically the aim of this show i'm just trying to be um, Small part, uh, the way that our community kind of uplifts and, and, uh, showcases a lot of our talent and talks about the journeys. I'm trying to show the journeys of, of artists and actors, um, to just show everyone how different this world is, how, how accessible and how much of a challenge it is.
because in this industry I guess People on the outside thinking of getting in or that are in it and fighting. I mean success. It's different. It's different for Everybody right? I mean for some people the only success is being an a list superstar and if you're not the you know, Ryan Reynolds or Or whatever it is, then you're not You're not successful in this industry, but uh, i'm just hoping that we're able to show the You different paths that many of us take and the struggles that uh, we have to fight through , and how Success can be fleeting and then come back and go away like it's You know, this is it.
So I really appreciate your vulnerability coming on here because If I can be vulnerable for a moment, I remember when I met you We did that movie beans, which i've talked about a bunch in this show, but I mean it was My first big role in in
Rainbow: Mine too on, on film. Yeah,
JD: Yeah, but I didn't, I didn't know that. I just met you and I was like, Oh, look at this professional lady.
Oh, she's so talented. She's, she's beautiful. She's smart. She's funny. She's generous. She's got all of the elements that make a successful actor. This is, I'm so intimidated. And, uh, and we did our stuff. I mean, I'm, it turned out I did. I did just fine. Anyway, despite my intimidation. I was like, Oh, wow, this is so cool.
And you as a person. turned out to be so incredibly kind and generous. And I got to meet this lovely human who took me on a road trip in Quebec where we were filming, you know, uh, got to have a lot of fun. You have such an interesting, personality. I'm just wondering if you could tell us, uh, where this comes from.
What was it like? Growing up where you did being who you are. So this is where our journey starts.
Rainbow: Sounds good. Um, first of all, I called myself an honest shithead just so that we're clear, cause I could have lied and said that I've listened, but I am going to now. Um, okay. I know we'll circle back to a lot of stuff, but so to answer your question, what was it like growing up me and where I was growing up?
So. We moved around a lot. Um, I was an only child between my mother and my dad. My dad has a very mysterious past. Um, he was either married, I'm not sure if they were married or not, but he had a partner before my mom and they had four kids. I've never met them. of them, I believe, now are, are past. So when I came around, um, my parents had this bee in their bonnet that they just would move around a lot.
My dad had left the Air Force and, I don't know, maybe traveling was like in his bones by then. But so I grew up all over the East Coast. I grew up in California. I grew up in Hawaii. Uh, mom would take me back home to Thailand for a couple months at a time. So I was kind of all over Maryland, Virginia, West Virginia, D.C., um, all over,
JD: You can do all the accents.
Rainbow: I wish it were so, um, you know, so that it was interesting and, you know, honestly, I remember having to move schools so much. I think for the most part, I kind of found it exciting to move around all the time. I look back now and I realize I think some of the things that my dad turned into games, like we'd be coming home from school or something and we'd play hide and seek behind a bunch of parked cars.
But I'm realizing now it's because there was like a bill collector, there was someone at our front door that he was like hiding from. I'm telling you, it's, we have an interesting, my dad is my dad's a character. Um, maybe we'll talk about him more, but, you know, so I kind of had a fun childhood, a loving childhood.
I saw a lot of different stuff, but I do remember, my memory is honestly a kind of for shit if, if you ask me to remember anything earlier than like eighth grade, but I remember going to, it's true, I remember going to eighth grade in West Virginia, starting in the middle of the school year. And I remember when the teacher had me in the front of the class and introduced me and she was like, We need a volunteer to take Rainbow around the school and show her around and nobody wanted to be my friend like nobody want nobody volunteered to like come and Show me around
JD: Oh, man. Ah,
Rainbow: I think it was because maybe I looked a little different than the other kids, you know in West, Virginia in that part of West Virginia Because I also remember at one point someone saying You people are really nice. And I couldn't quite understand like, what, what do you mean by you people? And I just think they meant different, you know? So, you know, I think, um, I'm grateful for my upbringing. I think it's what fuels me to to find home and what home means to me. And my desire to, like, buy a home and put roots down again somewhere, like, I think this sort of nomadic existence my whole life is what has led me to this sort of search and understanding for what home is.
JD: Ah.
Rainbow: And, you know, I had, I had an elder tell me once too, she was like, well, it's no wonder that you have this theme in your life about where is home. Because she's like, you know, your mother is an immigrant and so you don't have that sense of belonging. You know, in Thailand, and then your, your family here in the, what we know as the U. S. was removed from their home. Your dad was removed from home, so you don't have that sense of home, and then you grew up moving around. So she's like, duh. It was eye opening for me. I was like, oh my god.
JD: Yeah.
Rainbow: No wonder.
JD: Well, we're, we're, you know, a nomadic people for the most part, a lot of our, our tribes. So good. You're staying, uh, connected that way. We just got to move around. I always, I always kind of felt that way too, you know, um, that identity, that being mixed and everything and never really feeling settled. Um, and now it's, Thankfully, through the resurgence of culture, connectivity, that I'm feeling a lot more proud and, and knowing where I'm from.
Um, but it's also like a matter of, of, yeah, letting go of some of that other stuff. Like, I'm, I'm not connected really to my white ancestry. I don't even really know, um, what, what that part is, but it doesn't really, it doesn't bother me at all. Whereas when I was a kid, it was just like, oh, this is what I should be shooting for.
Um, But now it's uh, it's nice to feel a little bit more settled and I guess that's the beauty of chasing art You know, so i'm curious like what was it that just made you or pushed you to pursue that path of of being an artist in in life here?
Rainbow: Well, it's funny, because I, I don't think I would have even thought about it before eighth grade. Maybe I didn't think about it because I don't remember before eighth grade. Um, but I wanted to work with horses, like, when I was a kid. Like, I, I wanted to, like, work on a farm. I wanted to be a racehorse jockey.
I wanted to train horses. Like, that's what I wanted to do. Um, but then, you know, when I got to high school, well, eighth grade, I found, um, show choir. And then in ninth grade, our high school here, I found the theater department. And I remember Walking in to this beautiful high school theater auditorium and feeling like, oh, just walking into the theater, I felt like, I felt like I had found home, like, whatever that meant.
It just felt like inspiring and like a warm hug and this magical place and I had no idea what it was, but it just felt open and vast and beautiful. Like, I just was like, Oh, what is this place? Um, so I found theater in high school and that's sort of what, um, that's what started it all. And then I, I did commu- I like did community theater.
I, I started doing as many things as I could. I applied to take extra classes in high school because I wanted more art classes. so that's really what triggered it. But I, I also realized too, like my whole life, I liked doing things with my hands too, or I just liked creating things. Um, and that's become such a huge part of my, my personality too.
It's like, I have to, I have to make something visual as well, you know, like I'm constantly Like, folding little pieces of paper, or like, doodling on something, or I'll take, like, I'll take my food and I'll like, I'll take a candy bar and I'll like, shape it into like, some flour or something and then I'll eat it.
Like, I just, I don't know.
JD: Yeah, I think, I think we've, we've run a lot of parallels and Like, I, I did the same thing. It was coming out of my shell in the final grade of high school and community theater. I can't recommend that enough to anyone.
I mean, gosh, it's such a great way to cut your teeth. You, you learn. You learn the hardships. It is the, uh, the grungiest part of, of theater that you can do. And you're just making do with what you have. You got tissue paper for a costume. Good enough. Like, you know, that's, that's all it's going to be.
And you can't get better training than that really. Um, yeah, but also there's, there's also those, those folks that, uh, there's, there's this weird. culty aspect sometimes. And everyone knows it. Everyone, everyone knows somebody or some theater group that's just, I don't know, they get really big for their britches and they kind of forget that people are volunteering their time to make this art together.
Collaborative, beautiful thing. It should be fun. If it's not fun and the place is being run like a cult, run. Run listeners. Get out of there.
Rainbow: I concur. If anything is not fun, why do it?
JD: Yes, exactly. Now, I know that you you mentioned that um you want to be uh a show jumper, a race car driver, um and you've said that if you weren't an actor, yeah, you'd be one of those are a farmer or a uh noetic scientist. Right? That correct? So these are two very different, different, um, character traits that you have this speed, you know, you know, this need for speed and connectivity.
Yeah. I wonder if you could, um, kind of just go over how that, uh, relates into the acting world. Is that how you found, uh, your home in a way? Like this is a nice balance.
Rainbow: Ugh. does it, does it relate to the? I don't know. I think maybe I
JD: I don't know. You tell me.
Rainbow: I don't know. I think maybe I'm still discovering that. I think there's, um, I'm realizing this too. There is an element, there's a balance of being in control as well as being out of control in both the idea of working with animals, right?
And also, like, racing cars. You know, like you, you, you are in control to a certain extent, but then anything can happen at any, at any point. So maybe, maybe that, maybe that is also kind of why I like the arts and I like theater, you know, and I, I like acting because it gives me, it gives me some sense of control.
Like I, I am making something that is of my own voice that I have. control to an extent over how I use my instrument, the, the projects I choose to do, you know, where I lend my, my skill and my voice. But then on the other hand, I mean, you know, just getting to the point of booking a job is completely out of your control.
And then the product that ends up on screen actually at the end of the day is, is somewhat out of your control, right? Like you don't really have a say on which shot got selected or, um, you know, what hit the cutting room floor and what stayed and what didn't and
JD: Yeah.
Rainbow: so
JD: Sometimes your, but your best work is, is. You know, it doesn't, it doesn't
Rainbow: nobody ever sees.
Yeah, nobody ever sees. So, uh, you know, maybe that's, that's why I have the love hate relationship with the, with this industry
JD: as, as we, as we all do, um, you know, it, it, you're, you're right. It is, uh, Being, being part of a collaborative piece of art, uh, I mean, there's so much power and you have to have someone that's good at directing, someone that's good at editing, especially, because yeah, they can, they can also save you if you've had, if you had a bad day.
I mean, they could put together something that might work out or or, or people will be like, Oh, what is this? What, what are they doing in the scene? No, I just, I just, You know, ate some bad shellfish and I was dying.
Rainbow: I couldn't get close to her. That's all it was. Oh, but it looked so amazing. Like what was that dynamic?
JD: levels. Yeah, people, it's subjective, right? It is, it is, it is an art form. Um, yeah.
Rainbow: I was going to say, I'm realizing. I, I think I can solidly call you my, um, my on camera husband, because I think every time we've worked together, right, I mean we've only, we've done a TV show together and a feature film together, and both times, yeah.
JD: Yeah.
Rainbow: this, and we have one of the same kids, too, each time. There's a theme here.
JD: I know, it is, it is, it is wild, which is why, uh, I'm, I'm just so happy that you're here. In fact, you know what? On this day, because this is the day after American Thanksgiving, Um, and I don't need to tell all, all of the Nietzsche folks out there, all, all the natives and listening, uh, our complicated feelings toward that, obviously, uh, but, you know, even a reminder for us to look at what's going on in our lives and being thankful, it's, it's nice to have, and you know, you are a person that I'm very thankful for, uh, coming across in, in paths, uh, I was so incredibly happy to see you at that time.
Netflix party and, uh, you looked amazing. Your beautiful outfit that you had. Ah, it's so much fun. Um, and it is just this reconnection of worlds. My, my dear wife, our little family unit was together again with our daughter, who's again back, back at it, filming, doing, doing their thing. Um, it is, it is, it is so strange, but also thank you again for, um, your vulnerability because also I remember we had a discussion when I was down in LA just on how wild this this industry can seem sometimes because Suddenly people have launch pads and you know, it feels like a struggle.
Um, but It's just kind of part of the game. It's what to expect. I mean You can't get into acting without the love for it. I think And I'm just wondering about your thoughts on the fact that, uh, I remember you were like, Oh, gosh, it's so good to see you on True Detective at this point, because that was right after Netflix's thing.
And, uh, how other people that you've worked with have gone on, and how do you keep yourself motivated? Um, or does it even affect you? Is this just what you signed up for?
Rainbow: You know, those are, are really good, deep questions, um, that I feel like I wrestle with in a different way. all the time. So, feel like this ties into one of your comments a couple minutes ago about success. And I have realized over time that it's very important to come up with your own definition of success.
Um, because if you're, if you're always using somebody else's measurements or parameters, you're, you're just chasing a moving target all the time. So coming up with, with what that means for you, what is success to you? And I think it's important. And I'm also realizing, I think it changes, over time. You know, I think as you go through life, what is important to you and what is enough, which to me is also a definition of success, like what is enough, um, might change.
So, you know, I very much struggle with self doubt. I very much struggle with, a lack of confidence sometimes. I also struggle, I will fully admit, when I'm not my best self, I very much struggle with envy or jealousy. You know, I think there's nothing wrong with any of those emotions and it doesn't mean that you're a bad person and you know, there's lessons I think to be gained from all of them.
But so I remember, I remember feeling, you know, it was so nice. I wanted to just, to kind of see you at this party because I felt like, here, here's a friend that I, you know, that we made this beautiful thing together and then, you know, we parted ways as you often do in this world, right? You build this tight knit family bond over a couple of weeks or a couple of months or whatever the case is, and then you all disperse to your areas.
And it was, it just, um. I think it's a tribute to, to who you are as a person too. You just felt like a safe friend space, um, that I could just fall into a hug and have some comfort. Uh, cause I do find this business can be, it can feel solitary at times. It can feel daunting and you just, you just need a hug.
But I, I remember, I remember thinking, looking at all of the folks in Beans, especially the young ones, You know, Kiawentiio, and D’Pharaoh, Paulina, and watching them go on to lead their own television series. You know, all of them, um, just booming. And our wonderful director, Tracy Deer, I mean, she, She also, her career, I feel like, just started to flourish, and she's directing, like, these other huge mainstream television shows, um, all over, including here in the U.S., and for and for for Is Out No, Outlander's not Netflix. I'm sorry, Outlander. Prime? Where, where, ah, there's too many platforms. Um, but you know, and so she was booming, and then, and then seeing you, you know, go off and, and lead in this HBO series, it was like, it was, it was amazing. And then I suddenly felt like, oh, Rainbows, that, that's a clear sign, like, you, Are you meant to do this?
Like, you literally, everyone has left you behind. There must be something wrong with you. There must be, you must not be good enough to do this. Like, everybody else is, is off and going. You know, it's gotta be you.
JD: I'm going to
Rainbow: And if I'm honest-
JD: say that's not true. I know there's no way, but I understand. Continue. Yes.
Rainbow: yeah. Well, I was just gonna say, I'm still, I think, that little that little peanut gallery boy still pops up.
So I still struggle with it, you know, and I, I actually, I don't know if that ever goes away, you know. Perhaps no matter if we fast forward, you know, Joel, 30 years from now and we have X number of other projects under our belt, I have a feeling there's still gonna be at times that little peanut gallery voice that pops up and be like, not good enough, still suck,
JD: I, I think we share the same voice because that it, yeah, you're right. It
Rainbow: Is that what yours sounds like too?
JD: it does. It, it, it honestly does. I go through these, like, I've, and I've, I've been lucky and I've gotten a couple of projects that are, you know, you know, how post goes, they, they sit on shelves for a long time. And, um, you But in the interim, you know, there's just that that voice screaming at you.
You're not good enough You're not you know, you should be you in fact right now Why aren't you doing a theater show or something like that? Because you need to be available You know, there's these choices that you make in this industry and uh It it's it's really tricky because I love theater. I that's that's where My heart is I I love the floorboards.
I love the feel of the audience, and that is something that people don't get to see, obviously, unless you're there in the audience that night, but it is something else to be involved in something that millions and millions of people have seen, um, and, you know, that's, that's going to stand the test of time, because you can just throw it up on TV whenever you want to see those cool performances, but that voice, it just doesn't, it doesn't leave you alone, that feeling of, of self worth and Yeah, it is. It is a struggle because I think You're one of those people like I was saying I was listing off all those traits You have what it takes to be a successful actor But there's just so much luck That's involved and I I think a lot of people getting into the industry don't realize that I mean you meet a lot of young folks, especially, jumping in and they're just kind of naive about it.
They're like, ah, you know, in four years I'll be winning awards and this and that. You know, and it's like, you were really good at small town community theater thing and you know, it's nice, good for you. You got Annie. But, but, uh, it's, it's a rough, rough world. This is a tough industry. Um, So that tenacity that, uh, that fact that you are, uh, a stunt woman and a horse rider and you know, you're, you're used to the roughness.
So that serves you well, but it, it doesn't stop hurting.
Rainbow: Here's, here's the thing, though, Joel. Like, I, I, sometimes I struggle with, um I don't, I don't ever want to pretend, like, my, my path and my lived experience is the blueprint for anybody else's, like, path or lived experience. So, there's all, there's this, there's this dichotomy always within me of, like, You know, I like, for instance, you know, someone young and entering into the industry.
Not that we're not young. We're still young, Joel. Um, but someone, someone young and entering into the industry. I want to be like, you know, you might hit, you might hit some ups and downs. It might not be smooth sailing, you know, be prepared. You're going to be fine, but it can be hard, you know? And then at the same time, I'm like, why would I say that?
Why, why would I like gear them up to prepare for like the rough times? Shouldn't I just, shouldn't I be saying it could, yes, it could be potentially super easy for you and I hope that you just fly and you never hit a bump or crash into a wall and it's entirely possible, like, yes, go, may there never be, you know, a setback or, um, you know, a tear on your face, like, yes,
JD: that does happen too. Let's, you're
Rainbow: it does happen to,
JD: there are people that just liftoff and they're, they're gone.
Rainbow: Yes, it's true. Like, I think if you look out into the world, you can find evidence for any point of view that you have on absolutely any subject. You know what I mean?
JD: Absolutely!
Rainbow: You know, like, you can,
JD: those, those rare lottery winners.
Rainbow:Yeah.JD: And if you're in the game, I mean, it's important to also, and you know, and you're coming up against these lack of opportunities, you know, you're not, your lottery ticket isn't getting chosen. Um, And you're in a position to it's always important to even create your own work or work with other people that that create and you're in that.
That group community is very important, which is what I really appreciate about the Indigenous community. We all seem to know each other. Um, in some ways. Um, and the fact that like, uh, even last episode, I mean, let's, let's be honest, this is a very small podcast for a very small group of, of listeners out there, but I think it is important.
And guys like Dallas and, and, uh, Wes Studi just jumping in. Nonetheless, you know, like they were like, absolutely. I want to, you know, I want to help help our people, um, and if it's just another platform to get those voices out there, but if you can create your own work, even if it's for a small, small group of people, uh, it is important.
It is important stuff. Are you, are you, uh, a little segue, are you in production of anything? Are you creating anything at the moment?
Rainbow: Well done! Way to loop that in. Way to tie that together. Bridge that gap. All those, uh, analogies. Um, yes. Funny you should say. I've heard, I've had people say my whole career, Make your own work. Do your own thing. Don't wait for anybody. Tell your own stories. And To be honest, most of the time I've been like, What the fuck are you talking about?
Like, how? What do you mean? Or, that sounds exhausting! Like, I don't UGH! What do you mean? And, it wasn't until last year, honestly. Yes, of course, in little ways, like I was talking about, I've always been creative, like, my whole life. And, yes, I'll like I'll make projects in terms of like arts and crafts projects.
You know what I mean? Like I'll sew this thing or I'll build that or I'll, you know, paint this thing, whatever. But as far as, you know, film, TV, theater, it really wasn't until last year that there was a story, a storyline that spoke to me enough that sort of lit me up in a way where I was like, okay, I want to turn this short play is how it started into a short film.
My friend who wrote it, we talked about it and we're like, yeah, we think this really could work on film. I never produced, you know, a short film before. This really would be my first time building something from the ground up, and getting it made. And, and it, it, it was the very first time that I, I realized the roadblock I had all these years to like creating my own work was I had just never found a story or a concept that spoke to me strong enough.
Where I felt like I was ready, willing, and able to go 150 percent on it. Because I just knew if I was going to make something, I was going to go 150%. You know, like, um, and so somehow it was just the right, the right story. But I tell you, once we did that short film, um, the cork has popped now.
JD: cork has popped. And
Rainbow: cork has popped.
JD: of that short, what is that short film called?
Rainbow: So, it is called The River. The River, and it takes, it takes place on the Gila River Indian Community Reservation in Arizona. And it follows sort of the story of three generations of women who, have problem gambling, , affect their lives and how it affects kind of each of them. And, uh, yeah, we just, you know, Claude Jackson Jr.
is the writer. Um, like I said, it started as a short play. He is the public defender of, um, his tribe and, uh, funding, or resources from the gambling industry on their res helped fund his education and his law degree. , so he has immense gratitude for it. And at the same time, he's seen a lot of cases come across his desk that, have to do with people who are struggling because of gambling and because of the side effects of it.
So, for him, the story was important, um, to kind of tell a balanced story, , and to bring some humanity , to what addiction means and people who struggle with it. And then for me, that was kind of the same. Like, it's, it's It's things that I remember about my own dad, because that was what my dad struggled with. We didn't diagnose it. We didn't know what it was called, but I think that was part of why we were always running from people and hiding from people. I think, you know, we, we probably owed money all the time and stuff like that.
JD: Oh my gosh. Yeah. Oh, full circle back to dad. I,
Rainbow: So we're going back to dad, Papa Bear.
JD: you know, it's, it's funny. I mean, I, I look back and I love, um, My mushum. That is my grandfather in Cree for those listeners that, uh, don't know Cree. Um, and he, He did have, uh, some issues. I mean, uh, every, every family, every family does. I just remember one time, like, he, he, he blew his entire check over at the bingo, you know, like, and it was just, and people were just like, what's wrong with a man spending his money at what he likes, you know?
And we were like, but we kind of count on that, you know, like, yeah, it was, uh, It was just one of those things you realize you or you don't realize is strange when you're a kid And then you get older and you're like, oh man. Yeah, we did do some funny things to make ends meet, you know, like, uh, Yeah, i'm just picturing little rainbow ducking behind cars.
Hee hee hee, that man over there. He can't see us.
Rainbow: There were some scary moments too, like I remember a time, because my folks, , when we lived in West Virginia, my folks would commute to Washington, D. C. for work. My mom worked at a grocery store, and my dad had a variety of random jobs, so it required them though to travel. They were in the car about four hours every day, a two hour commute each way.
And I remember, oh, how old are you when you're, how old are you when you're like in ninth grade? 8th and 9th
JD: Like 14 Yeah,
Rainbow: I remember just, you know, because I was home alone all the time and it was late when my folks got home, I remember, like, we moved into this new house and there was, like, a car that would, that I could see, just, like, parked, you know, with their lights on at night, um, like, at the end of the drive, uh, like, on the, the, the public road.
And I didn't, didn't think anything of it, and then, like, you know, a couple nights go by, and I'm sitting Um, on the sofa. I don't remember what I was doing, but I remember sitting on the sofa and like there was a person with a flashlight that was walking around the house, like shining a light into like the house.
JD: yeah, scary!
Rainbow: Scary, right? And then, so I did. I was, I was scared. I don't remember what I did. I feel like I might have called, called my parents. But then I remember like another night, it was the same car in the same spot in the road. And I was starting to put like two and two together. Like, I bet you this is the same person.
I bet. Clearly they're like, up to no good. And I remember, you know, my little 14 year old self, or whatever, I was like, fuck this noise. So, I opened the front door, and I had the like, the corded phone. You know, it was like, a giant phone with like, the long cord-
JD: They, they were heavy. For those of you before cell phones. Uh, yeah, you could knock someone with one of those.
Rainbow: They were ridiculous.
So I had the corded phone, and I opened the door, and I had like, a baseball bat, and I just stood there like, yeah, come on. Come on, you little Um, but so There were fun moments of, like, hiding behind cars, and then there were, like, some scary moments of, like, somebody's, somebody's here to, like, do harm. Um, I digress.
JD: And it all, it all, yeah. The, the tapestry that is rainbow. Uh, it's a beautiful rainbow tapestry. That's what I should have said. That would have been so much smoother if I would have said that it's a beautiful rainbow tapestry. Ah, you know what, I'm just gonna leave my mess up in. I'm not gonna edit that out.
That'll be-
Rainbow: I, this, this, this makes me think of a question for you, actually.
JD: really? Fire away.
Rainbow: Yes. So here we are, here we are talking about, like, life experiences, right? Basically, I just told a story about a life experience. And I was about to say, this is what we draw on as artists, as actors. We draw on our life. We draw on our life experience.
But I was just having a conversation yesterday with another friend saying, is it healthy to use your own personal, let's be specific, traumas? Is it healthy to use your own specific personal traumas in your work? Do you think it is? And do you think art is therapy?
JD: mean, oh, see, here's, here's the thing. I think, our ammo box is stuffed with all of our experiences in, in life. And that is, that is for us to use. Absolutely. You can draw on that, connect with that. Theater is therapeutic for sure. Art is very therapeutic, but it shouldn't be confused with therapy.
I don't think it's the way that we get, we get better and take care of ourselves. We still have to take care of ourselves. Absolutely. In fact, theater as much, as much as it can be therapeutic and releasing and letting some of that stuff out. Let's face it. This it's, it can be quite brutal too, and it can add to it as well.
I mean, you're going to learn those lessons. Anyone out there doing this, this type of work, uh, just how much you can bear, how much you can put up with. Recently I was offered some work and the people involved, I knew I don't mesh with and it's not that, like, I had the time for it and it would have been lovely, but um, you just know how, how much you can take through, through these experiences.
And, and so I say no, you know, um, and, and it kills me too because I, I want to be busy. And that's how I feel like I'm valued and everything as well. So it is, it was like a lose lose situation, but at least I realized like, no, this is not going to help me as much as it's going to hurt me. Um, so you just kind of move on from there.
So I hope that answers your question in a
Rainbow: that did.
JD: Yeah,
Rainbow: You know, and I, I think it did. Good job!
JD: Well, I thank you. Thank you so much. , I, I have a question for you as well. Um, I always like hearing, hearing this and it's, it's a question everyone sort of gets, I think, because you being Asian indigenous, I think, I think there's a big, there's a big population of, of, um, I guess when people say mixed indigenous, There's automatically in a lot of people's heads a picture that pops up, maybe somewhat like me, you know, but with white ancestry is just the default because there's so many white people, obviously, um, that that's just sort of how it goes.
And there's Afro Indigenous, which actually has a pretty good representation. They're getting more and more recognized. There's actually entire tribes that are Afro Indigenous, a very heavy population. Um, going back to slavery and the mixed and allyship, Asian indigenous is still somewhat underrepresented.
I mean, a lot, even weirdly enough, uh, fun, weirdly enough, I shouldn't say weirdly enough, that's mean for Keanu Reeves. I mean, he's, he's, he's, but he's everything too. He's got, what did he say? Irish and Scottish and, um, Hawaiian, uh, Chinese,
Rainbow: that. I didn't
JD: yeah. Oh, yeah, he's, he's a whole bunch of things,
Rainbow: Okay.
JD: but equaling Good person, I think. I like, I like the vibe of Keanu. I haven't met him, but he seems like a good
Rainbow: Same. But I agree.
JD: But my question for you is being Asian indigenous, when was the first time you saw yourself sort of represented in art and film and TV and theatre?
Rainbow: I'm so glad you're asking this question! So glad! Um, I, I'm gonna go deep on this question, but the, the quick answer to start with is When was the first time I saw myself as Asian Indigenous represented on screen? Never? I don't, have I? Yet? I don't know if I have. But Roman Zaragoza, who's a friend of mine, um, he is.
He, I think he's, he's several things as well, but he is Asian Indigenous. And I think he, he's like the first one that I met in my life, like in my personal life that had like a similar story, um, to me. I don't, I don't see it. I don't really see it very often. Uh, and to be honest, like, we're starting to see more, you know, slightly more Indigenous representation, um, in various ways in the industry.
Um, which is a good thing now, get back to that. Um, we are seeing Asian American representation, but it's still, you know, We're in this age of like specificity so I can see things are shifting and like people were really trying to hyper, hyper focus into like Korean, you know, and what that culture is like or Japanese and what that culture is like or Chinese or, you know, Filipino. I still don't really see anything that's Thai. There's like nothing. don't think I can think of a single show that's got like a specifically Thai character.
JD: then and then you'd be looking at Thai and indigenous and
Rainbow: yeah,
JD: you're it. I might, that
Rainbow: yeah, that it doesn't. Yeah. You know, and that's been, um, my, my managers who are wonderful women. Um, Kay Lieberman and Lenore Zerman here in Los Angeles, they've had so many conversations, um, with, with casting directors and people in the industry saying, well, but if we keep casting to type, exactly to type, like an actor can only play what their lived experience is, they're like, well, then when is someone going to write a Thai Rappahannock character?
Cause you're saying that that's all that she can play. Um, and if that's not out there and that doesn't exist. Yeah. Um, Once. I have read for one Thai character ever in my career, and it was actually recently, just a couple of months ago. Correction, I didn't even get to read for it, because they just said it was a Thai character, but you needed to speak fluent Thai.
And I don't.
JD: Uh,
Rainbow: and that was another, like, heartbreak crush. I don't have language of any kind from either of my parents. I do not speak any dialect of Algonquin. , they're trying to revitalize, the, the dialect that the Rappahannock speak. Uh, I met like a lovely woman at this last film festival who was in charge of revitalizing the language. Um, but you know, I don't speak any form of Algonquin. I don't speak Thai. So that, you know, stuff like that comes up all the time that like breaks my little heart when, when we're talking about like identity and ancestry
I think that I am in the minority. Ba dum tsch. Obviously. Um, I think I am in the minority in my viewpoint. Of feeling like we keep narrowing the definition of what representation means. And I think I'm worried for us.
Uh, because I think, I think we're shrinking our imagination. Because we are, our definition of representation, I think, especially for us as actors, It really just boils down to, what do they look like? And when we talk about how to expand representation in the world, it's not just about appearance.
You know, it's about, um, you know, your, your, um, your language, your viewpoint in the world, how you walk through the world. Um, you know, it encompasses like the whole human being and not just what somebody looks like. But when we talk about representation as actors and in the entertainment industry, it's usually.
Some about, like, getting writers in the writer's room and other creatives, but that conversation is very new. It has been just the last couple of years about seeing the appropriate face shape or color or person on screen. So, I think representation is broader than what we make it, and I think I, in my life, have been able to watch any show, any program, and find that. a point of connectivity to the characters in it. And I, I attribute some of that to my parents and the way that they brought me up. Um, but for me, I think that is the direction that I would like to see us go. I want to be able to say that I don't have to see a Thai Rappahannock person on screen to feel like I'm being understood or to find a connection.
I want to find the connections through humanity. Regardless of what, you know, where you come from, what you look like, what your, you know, demographic is, what your economic status is, I want to teach people to find themselves in everyone. I think that's what bridges the gap. Instead of having to say, oh, I didn't see the person that looks exactly like me, thinks exactly like me, acts exactly like me, therefore I'm represented on screen.
I want to teach people to find themselves and to find the connectivity. In everyone because we all are connected. We all are the same.
JD: Yeah. We're, we're, we're all, we're all people. And it's our job as artists to, I guess, help others feel empathy for, for a lot of stories through what we do, um, and sort of build those connections. Absolutely. I, I, for one, am, you know what, like, I'm, I'm okay with going for an Indigenous part and playing whoever.
If the director favors more of a specific part going to that person for this character, then I'm okay with that too. I'm, I'm, absolutely. But also It is an art and uh, there is a point where the better performer will win But also i'm not i'm not up for like watching a story about the black experience and seeing a white guy do the part or something I don't care how I don't care if you're Daniel Day Lewis.
I don't want you're not you're not gonna do that part But I I see what you're what you're saying. Yeah hyper specific. Um can get a bit. It's tricky. It's tricky like they recently um did a a show about the Canadian arctic, um on CBC it'll be coming out my friend Anna Lamb is in it and they they weren't um able to cast completely Inuk you know, they got people from around the country of different groups and That's that's okay.
They got there. Sometimes you have to go with who's able to perform and you know, because it is This still is a business. acting isn't easy
Rainbow: it's it's not it's not and it concerns me You know, the, the concept of street casting and I keep hearing more and more as I, as I travel around, you know, um, different film festivals and meeting people and up and coming directors and whatnot. I keep hearing directors, a lot of directors saying how much they've really enjoyed working with like non actors and how they, they might never, you know, go back to traditional casting and hiring actors anymore, that they really like to have non actors and street casting.
And there's whole, you know, there's a whole, There's a whole, sort of casting bracket now where agents specialize in, like, street casting and stuff. Um putting, you know, putting influencers in roles and, and other sort of pop culture icons, you know, as, as actors and teaching them to act.
Like, basically people saying it's, it's easier to just teach someone to act, um, and you'll get a better performance than, than hiring, like, a trained actor. Yeah,
JD: you've been trained. I'm, I'm, I'm like a street kid. I only learned through doing, um, but you have actually had training as well, right? You've done a lot of Shakespeare and which I find so incredibly difficult. I've done some, but it is very difficult for me to work my way through that text, but it is enjoyable, but you've, you've had your training as well.
Where did you train?
Rainbow: I have. But, you know, I mean, like you, I would count, like, I count back in high school doing community theater as, like, part of my training. You know, you are, to me, you are a trained actor now because you've learned by doing, which I agree. To me, that's the, that's the most valuable form of, um, learning that I've experienced.
Learn by doing. Learn on the job. But, yeah, you know, I did. When I graduated, you know, high school, I didn't decide to go to college right away. I, I just went out and worked for, for a year. And then after that I decided I wanted to go to a, a theater school specifically, like a conservatory. So I, I went to London and I, I studied there for a year and then I decided I would leave there.
And I went to New York and I finished my education, um, at a theater conservatory in New York City. So, yeah, so I do have, you know, I do have training and then I do have just years of, of working, you know, in the theater and, and just doing the work and I'm constantly still learning and, and evolving. But, you know, it's not just because I'm like feeling bitter or something , like I do think I can see the value. in pulling someone off of the street and giving somebody that's never had the opportunity to perform a chance to perform and I can see when it works and I think it is magic and some people can really capture you know magic on specifically on screen like on
JD: It does. Yeah. And that's that's also the thing too is that that does happen. It's not like being a doctor. So you just pull someone off the street and like, hey, cut this guy open and change out his heart and they're gonna Wow, what a natural. It is it is an art form where it is subjective. And sometimes there's these people that
Rainbow: Yeah.
JD: Wow, they get it.
Then, and, but let's, let's also be fair and most of the time they just fall on their face and the heart falls on the floor and gets covered in dirt and
Rainbow: And then, and then, and then that's when, you know, that's when you realize, Okay, so if this person wants to continue, then they continue, and then eventually they develop craft, right? Like, you don't stay untrained for long because just the act of doing something makes you experienced,
JD: Exactly. I was garbagey dog shit when I started. Ah, 100%.
Rainbow: Oh, I have a hard time believing that. I really have a hard time believing that.
JD: Rainbow, there's, there's, there's, there's footage of me, my very first time performing, and I was Jesus Christ Superstar, and my voice cracked. They filmed it two nights because it was from high school. They filmed it two times. My voice cracked in the same spot so they couldn't edit around it. So, on the tape that everyone got sent home.
And, uh, yeah, I couldn't act, I couldn't dance, I couldn't do anything. And, you know, it was, but hilarious nonetheless. I definitely learn from mistakes. I've taken the hard road. Road? Road. of uh, of education in this. I want to, I want to, I want to give you a chance to do a little, little fun thing that I do every show.
It's called the Red Red Carpet. And it's a chance for you to give a shout out to something that is, um, inspiring you in the indigenous community at the moment. , It could be a person. It could be a show. It can, it can be someone in, in your life, uh, someone from afar, but who's really like getting your engine going right now?
And, and, and, uh, you want to make sure that other people get a chance to check them out.
Rainbow: Oh golly gosh, gee willikers. Um,
JD: not familiar with that. 1666.
Rainbow: I feel sorry for you because it's amazing. Um, okay, let's see. So I'm going to, I'm going to shout out, there's a woman that I recently met. Um, so she's just an acquaintance. Her name is Laura Chilton and she is um, and maybe Pamunkey as well. So another other Virginia Nations. And she has just written a book called 1666, a novel. 1666, a novel, which sort of is, for the first time, putting down on paper, um, for public ears, um, the story of her ancestors and sort of what they endured during that time period, , in Virginia. Because up until now, it's basically the story and the history has only been just sort of recounted within the tribe, the tribal community itself.
But so she's put it down on paper and it's basically the story of, her ancestors when, their village, their area was raided by white settlers and basically every single man who was there in the village at the time was. I don't know the exact number, and all of the women and children, um, a lot of them were also killed, but most of them were then rounded up and they were put on a boat and they were, taken to Barbados and sold into slavery there.
And then, after so many years, there, there is a discrepancy whether it's two or three. They're not sure. There are two or three women. Made it back from Barbados to, um, the tribe, to Virginia and was able to sort of restart the tribe. There were a couple of men as well who were out, um, they weren't in the, they weren't in the village that night.
And so a few people did survive back in Virginia, but then two or three women made it back from Barbados. And it's kind of that story, and I think it, it, it sounds incredible. I'm, I'm inspired by her bravery to do the work and to put the story on paper and, you know, with, with the blessing of the community, um, and to share, you know, this, this story and the amount of work she put in.
And I also kind of love it because I, I wish I could remember the publishing company, but it's, she said it's, it's a relatively small new publishing company that she wanted to go with. Um, and it's a publishing company that only publishes books by female writers over 50. And I thought that was. It's also super cool.
But so, shout out to Laura Chilton and 1666, a novel which documents, , at least one story of a Virginia nation that probably a lot of people don't know.
JD: Okay, I like that. That's the first, I think that's the first, uh, novel shout out that we've had. How novel. I am, I am getting rolling eyes thrown at me right now for that stupid pun. Okay.
Rainbow, Rainbow, it's always such a pleasure to see you and chat with you. Um, dear listeners out there, uh, lovely, lovely human. Please go see any theater production that she's in. Go see any movie that she's in and go see The River when it comes out too. Or look it
Rainbow: Yes, please do. And you know, I don't, I don't do socials, but I have a website and you can always find me somewhere on the interwebs.
And if you email, I email back. So this is so short and I would love to continue this conversation.
JD: I would love to all right. We'll continue our conversation Without the listeners. I’m sorry dear listeners out there, but I’m going to be taking this one off the air. So, that’s it from Actors and Ancestors land and I hope that this holiday season, whatever holiday it is you’re celebrating, finds you and all those that you love, well. Till next time, Ekosi!
Actors and Ancestors is created, hosted and produced by me, Joel D. Montgrand and audio editing and production support by Daniella Barreto.
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